"...Dave Cournoyer isn't some obscure fat frat boy with a sticky-up haircut." - Neil Waugh (Edmonton Sun)
It has been a rough year for the Alberta Greens. After a months-long legal battle between Joe Anglin and George Read for the right to lead the party, the Greens were reported to be in financial ruin.
I can be reached by email at: daveberta.ca@gmail.com.
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20 comments:
That was Joe "secret NDP'er" Anglin's plan all along. To ruin the Green Party and ensure that those handful of stray votes return to the Stalinistic folds of Brian Mason's embrace.
Riiiiight. Because the NDP was such a political juggernaut in rural Alberta before the Greens came along.
Damn!!
And I was just asked in front of a couple hundred people if I would run for the leadership of the Wildrose.
Not bad for secret NDP'er
Dismiss it all you want, but killing the Greens was always Dipper Joe's intentions.
And the fact that they did it via "the rurals" was just a smokescreen.
http://www.cbc.ca/albertavotes2008/riding/026
Notice anything interesting there? Like the fact that Eggen lost by a smaller margin than the Greens pulled?
So, Joe, what's your response?
Anon lets stick to facts here... I dont think the NDP have anything to do with this. Unless you have some very concrete proof please stop with the ranting.
I would like to hear Joes thoughts on this as well...
"And I was just asked in front of a couple hundred people if I would run for the leadership of the Wildrose."Joe -- if you're ever looking for obscurity, then that's a way to get there.
There is now a growing petition showing support for David Crowe at http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=96633686017&h=n7_nP&u=wuQUn&ref=mf !
Please sign, and support the truth!
C'mon Joe. Cat got your tongue?
I think Joe is smart enough to not keep on responding to dumb ass accusations.
I wont stick up for the NDP accusations, but the points David brings up are far from what should be called dumb ass. I would still like Joe to comment on them, although Connie was the one directly involved. I would like to see how they rationalize these actions, and if they will try to blame the old exec for this as well.
I have been through David Crowe's arguments and have listened to his taped conversation with the Green Party's auditor.
On his facebook page, David Crowe accuses me of lying when I say that I saw the box he turned over to the new executive and it was a mish-mash of documents that did not clearly cross-reference names and deposits. I take exception to being called a liar.
I am also concerned with the illegal loans that David Crowe and one other made to the party prior to the last provincial election. David Crowe tried to explain why the loans were not illegal but I cannot accept his explanation. Loans must be made only from chartered banks and not individuals. Further to that, the question of loaning the money to the Party does not show up in any of the minutes prior to the loan being made. And he was to receive a 7% return on the loan, a rate much higher than interest from a savings account.
For me, this raises doubts on other claims David Crowe makes. Perhaps there is an explanation I do not understand and have not heard, however, these descrepancies put my guard up.
I have concerns also that he taped a conversation between himself and the auditor now auditing the Green Party books without telling the auditor the conversation was being taped. In my opinion that is unethical. I found his questions on the tapeleading and rehearsed.
I know I will be accused of being a "Joe supporter" for writing this but I have taken a long time to consider David Crowe's evidence.
There is much to consider in this debacle and more than enough blame to spread around. I find it tragic that the Alberta Green Party continues to shoot it's own feet at a time when opportunity looms large for any credible opposition.
It ought to be known that Joe Anglin has been travelling around this province on his own dime for the last three months fighting Bill 19. He has garnered more rural support than the Green Party has ever had. I saw none of the "old-guard" out to any of the public forums. I heard much criticism that Joe was doing it all for his own ego.
I was there and I saw him beat the Minister to a rhetorical pulp on more than one occassion.
I have never asked Joe, but I suspect he trully believed he would be able to take the party out of the reverie of dreaming of power to actually having some. I believe he was stunned when his efforts were so harshly rebuffed but the "old-guard."
I was new to the party and was quite excited by the vigour he brought. I am a rural and I work with my hands, which are in dirt most days. The way Joe Anglin presents things is the way I understand them: straight from the hip... like it or lump it.
I disagree with him on many fronts but I have always found him respectful of my opinions and questions.
I also know that I have tried many times to get people who criticise Joe but have never met him to actually meet him. I can tell you that except for one or two, most of those who spout the most venom will not meet with him face to face. I have always found this less than honest.
The irony is that Joe Anglin could have started a wave of support in rural ridings that would have taken away the power base of the Tories. Instead, he was "knee-capped" from the start... from within.
There is much more to this whole tragedy than meets the eye and I would be wary of believing anything too simple. I know there has been much damage done, yet I still have hope that most of us still share more common ground than we realise.
Some day we will see this split for what it is... and obstacle that needs to be put behind us in order to stand up to a government that feels entitled to rule.
Regards.
Will Munsey
I have checked David Crowe's Facebook page and I cannot find where he called you a liar.
Can you be more specific.
M. Oldershaw
1. "David Crowe accuses me of lying when I say that I saw the box he turned over to the new executive and it was a mish-mash of documents that did not clearly cross-reference names and deposits"
I did not accuse Will Munsey of lying. He's confused and out of his depth. He admits he doesn't understand finances, he now knows that the most critical document, the MYOB accounting file, wasn't in the box because it's electronic. But he persists in claiming that by looking at the box that, for all he knows, was deliberately turned upside down en-route from Calgary, he can determine that I was a lousy book-keeper.
Greens aren't supposed to like paper. I didn't. If I had kept a physical paper trail of everything there would have been 10 or 20 boxes. Instead there was one box and a 15 Megabyte accounting file (that's 15 million letters worth) -- which was the true archive. Given a few more years I would have gone 100% paperless.
Will can excuse Joe for not doing anything with the accounting file. Incompetence or malice? Or some third option that I am not imaginative to think of.
2. All Will has to do is go to the Elections Alberta website and see that David Crowe filed successfully 7 times in his term as CFO, and Joe Anglin, Connie Jensen et al couldn't file once.
3. "I am also concerned with the illegal loans that David Crowe and one other made to the party prior to the last provincial election"
It is highly debatable whether interest-bearing loans are forbidden. Another interpretation of the confusing legislation is that all loans are allowed but, if from a bank, they cannot be from a Treasury Branch. But let's assume that we misinterpreted the law. Still, a member giving money to the party is explicitly allowed. All the new executive had to do was to pay the money back without interest by March 31st. That's another thing that they couldn't figure out how to do. Two of us are still out about $1000 (principal, not interest).
4. "And he was to receive a 7% return on the loan".
We followed the federal Green Party process which was prime plus 1%. Back at the beginning of February 2008 that's where interest rates were. If I'd known that the stock market would crash in April I'd have invested my life savings in the Green Party. This is a common method because it ensures that loans are at commercial rates. If not, the difference between the interest rate paid and commercial rates could be considered a donation on the sly, not monitored by the law. So paying a low interest rate is actually a big problem.
5. "more than enough blame to spread around"
Well, Will says there's blame to go around but refuses to take any, and refuses to let Joe take any either. He's happy to criticize the old executive from his comfortable position as a Yes-man for Joe Anglin who never has to lift a finger except to say "Aye, Joe", but still gets to be called a Deputy Leader.
6. By contrast I will admit we made mistakes. We should not have given in to the bullying tactics of a lawsuit. I understand why we did, but it was a mistake. We should have also gone into the hall on September 27th and run the meeting, denying voting on constitutional amendments, because that had previously been agreed (but mysteriously Midge Lambert, one of the clique, failed to include that information in the meeting notices she volunteered to send out).
7. "It ought to be known that Joe Anglin has been travelling around this province on his own dime for the last three months fighting Bill 19"
If Joe Anglin is travelling on his own dime, can we see a financial report from Alberta Greens to prove it? Has any of the $80,000 he claims to have raised (from landowners, not plebians) been spent on his expenses at all? Has money been donated to the Alberta Greens while it is in limbo? Will tax receipts be generated, and will they be legal if the party is deregistered or continues in the limbo of not having filed papers?
8. "I was there and I saw him beat the Minister to a rhetorical pulp on more than one occasion"
Ah, beating ministers to a rhetorical pulp. Is that one of the 7 Green values? Is that how he learned to intimidate and evict the old executive? Is this what Gandhi, one of the inspirations for the true Green movement, taught?
8. "he was stunned when his efforts were so harshly rebuffed but the "old-guard."
Joe "Brutus" Anglin expected the friends of George "Julius" Read to step over the dead body and enthusiastically join in? If you use brutish tactics (such as getting a lawyer to come in on a Sunday, the day after the disputed meeting, and send a legal letter effectively threaten to bankrupty your opponent) you can expect that people won't like you. You can expect them to think you're not fit to lead a Green party. Conservative Party sure. Liberal Party definitely. NDP, probably. Greens, no. That's not our way. That's why we spent so many years in the wilderness as Greens, because we refused to take the easy way out, befriending someone one day, beheading him the next.
9. "I am a rural and I work with my hands, which are in dirt most days"
Ah, dirt on the hands. I know, us effete urbanites have run the party with manicured fingernails for far too long. What accounts for all the support we gave Edwin, Connie and Joe? Is it possible that we were trying to build a province-wide party? Is it possible that the arrogance of some people meant that they believed that their success was totally their doing and had nothing to do with the infrastructure build over almost 20 years? Is it possible that the new party now only represents rural Alberta landowners? Is that an improvement over an urban party that's reaching out to rural areas, with increasing success?
10. "I disagree with him [Joe Anglin] on many fronts but I have always found him respectful of my opinions and questions."
I've never actually known Will Munsey to put his disagreements with Joe in writing. I suggest that he not do this if he knows what's good for him.
11. "I have tried many times to get people who criticise Joe but have never met him to actually meet him"
I have met Joe Anglin. I admired and respected him at the time. I had a really good talk with him while walking in the Central Alberta forests, and was enthusiastic to have him in the party. Even after September 27th I had a couple of pleasant talks in attempts to defuse the situation. But what I learned is that what he said didn't match his actions. It's his actions I have problems with, not his rhetoric, that's something that even us urban folk who've never worked an honest day in our life can appreciate. Just like Brian Mulroney's blarney, or Jean Chretien's rhetoric. The words are fine wine, but the actions are back-street brutality.
12. "Joe Anglin could have started a wave of support in rural ridings that would have taken away the power base of the Tories"
Yes, if he hadn't been so arrogant as to think that he could take over the entire party, he could have. He could have been the leader with me as CFO (and note that I was elected at Joe's version of the September 27th AGM). But a series of threatening emails, overt hostility and refusals to compromise made me realize I no longer had a place in the party.
In summary, Will Munsey is supporting Joe Anglin's scorched earth policy. What, nothing will grow in the ground because the heat of the fire destroyed the soil? What a surprise!
Good grief. Is this a rejected script from a Degrassi Jr. High episode?
I've seen more maturity out of RedBull/horomone-fuelled 18-year-olds at Cowboys on 25-cent draft night than this gaggle of blathering, finger-pointing, wannabe politicians.
This childish behaviour is in part why less than half of Albertans didn't vote in the last provincial election. It also shows the Green/Progress/Self-destruction Party is nowhere near ready to be elected as hall monitor much less as MLAs.
Last election was the first time I didn't vote Green because I felt the party and it's then leader were largely absent and didn't offer anything of real substance. I had hoped that with Joe Anglin at the helm the party would become more focused and relevant to a broader population. I was sorely mistaken. Next election, I won't vote Green because the current and former executive has shown neither of them are capable of showing the kind of leadership that is needed now more than ever to form any kind of opposition to the Tories, much less forming a government.
So, you can all stop blaming each other for the sorry state of your party because ALL of you, in some capacity, bear some of the responsibility. If not, you risk losing more than just my vote.
Modern education seems to have produced a generation which believes that everyone has a right to an opinion even if they have no understanding of the facts.
The case here is clear. The previous executive of the Alberta Greens passed to the Anglin Group all the necessary information to maintain the party in good order. The Anglin group did not have the computer skills to comprehend the technical side of managing the finances and was too embarrassed to admit it even to themselves. They ignored the enormous database file which obviously would not open with just a mouse click and passed the PDF files (which, all praise to Adobe, did opened for them with just a mouse click), to their lawyer, their accountant and to Mr Munsey.
When these data proved insufficient for the required reports or receipts, who did they so publicly blame: the previous CFO. What was he supposed to do? Write it out in longhand for them. All they had to do was ask the previous executive to explain it for them and the previous executive was obligated to do so. But no, the Anglin Group knows that it is incapable of error and if anything goes wrong it must be someone else's fault. (Remember the other strange case of the missing registered society.)
So, feel free to espouse your opinion and lay the blame equally, it's so much easier than understanding the facts.
Mr Howell,
If you were such an devoted Green supporter, why did you not contribute some effort to affect positive changes to the Party? You would rather just sit back and say the equivalent of "I told you so" when it appears it will make you appear wise?
When folks move themselves off of the couch of apathy into a comittment to do something, there may very well be conflict .... but at least they are doing something.
You have personally taken advantage of this dispute to further not Green values or a better political picture in Alberta, but your own notoriety, so please spare us the "I knew it all along" statements.
Pathetic ! Going away shaking my head ....
Mr. Anglin
How miraculous! Another group that you think is "begging" for you. A trend forms and one questions which little "man" keeps telling you that you are so special, so wonderful that EVERYONE wants you?
You should have given the Wild Rose Alliance offer some thought - they have buckets of money and given the rate that you went through the purse of the Alberta Greens with spurious law suits so that you could be "right", more cash would be an advantage to you as you march forth with more and more people seeing just what you are - that money could come in handy for more law suits when people don't agree with you.
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